The following questions and answers are excerpted from a conversation that followed the NBR screening of Wicked.
Marc, I believe Wicked has been on Broadway for about twenty years now.
Marc Platt: Beginning of the twenty-second year.
Incredible. Why was now the right time to turn this into a film?
MP: I waited a long time to make the film. I did it with my original creators, Stephen Schwartz, and Winnie Holzman—who wrote the brilliant screenplay and created this story based on Gregory Maguire’s novel. Even though there are parts of it that feel very much like it’s written about the world we’re living in today, it was written thirty years ago. I wanted to do justice to the original and respect it. I’m always trying to seek some kind of perfection, and I wanted to wait until I knew I could get it right. Universal, which is a partner on the Broadway show, has wanted to make the film for twenty years. Many wonderful filmmakers have come into my office asking to make the film. One of the reasons that I wasn’t ready was because, always, even if I didn’t know it, I was waiting for this man—Jon Chu—to come into my life with the intelligence and the talent and the heart and humanity that he brings to the film. And it’s the same with these two wonderful women. Because there’s no film without these two authentic, truthful performances. So, the three of them, that’s why I waited so long.
It felt like a way for me to funnel the understanding of what it feels like to be the odd one out
There’s a certain thrill and energy to seeing live theater, but there are limits. With film, there are more possibilities to expand a universe and its fantastical elements. Jon, how did you approach this world?
Jon M. Chu: I called and emailed Marc for twenty years, so I had to be ready! I remember seeing the show in San Francisco before I ever made it to New York. I was in college, and my mom called to tell me there was a new Stephen Schwartz musical. I had zero context, and I remember sitting there in the dark just being blown away by the emotion, by the relationship of these two powerful women and the scope of it all. I imagined in my head, she did fly around during that production, right? To me, it felt like watching E. T. for the first time in a movie theater, just magical. And I remember thinking, the person who makes this movie is very, very lucky. I just didn’t know that twenty years later it would be me.
I imagine the pre-production process for this was… intense.
JMC: Marc, Stephen, Winnie and I were on Zoom, during COVID times, every day for four or five hours a day, five days a week. We would go through every line in the script. And I would ask questions. Like, what is her power? Things that I didn’t get the answer to necessarily in the show or in other contexts. With the design and build, we had a whole war room with all the drawings, and Paul [Tazewell] coming in with the costumes, and there were a lot of questions about, well, what is Oz? If these people are going to really exist there, what does it look like? What’s the culture? So we spent those months asking hard questions and taking those apart and putting them back together. Beyond just, what does it look like.
It’s rare to see such a strong story of female friendship on screen. What drew each of you to your respective characters and when did you know that your chemistry was going to be successful?
Cynthia Erivo: I had seen the show when I was twenty-five, I took myself on a birthday date. When I watched it, I felt really close to this wonderful woman who didn’t quite fit in. There was something about it that I could understand, and that I knew deeply. That stuck with me for years and years. I had known the music before I had seen the show, so I really was in love with the sound of that music—the way the voices rang, the way the score was written, the build of the songs. When I found out that it was being turned into a film, I did the very Elphaba thing and said, don’t tell me anything, I don’t want to know. I don’t want to know if it’s possible. Deep down I really wanted to be a part of it, and a part of me was like, if I just avoid it, then I won’t get hurt if I don’t get asked. I knew that it was a big deal for everyone, and I knew how important this piece was to so many people. When it finally did come my way, Jon did his due diligence, and we spoke many times before I came in for an audition. I worked hard because I wanted to make sure that he knew that it wasn’t just a piece for me; it wasn’t just a job. It felt like a way for me to funnel the understanding of what it feels like to be the odd one out, the one that doesn’t belong, the one that doesn’t feel like they are seen. When I went into the room, I felt safe enough to be vulnerable. It’s one of those things, the idea that this character who walks in with a tough veneer, actually, very close to the surface, has a lot of vulnerability. That’s the thing I really wanted for this character. For people to see the humanity and the vulnerability in this being. I wanted to dig into her a little bit more.
Ariana Grande: I first saw Wicked when I was ten years old and immediately Glinda was my favorite thing I’d ever seen. Of course, with the comedy and the high notes and the jumping on the bed and the laughter from the audience. It was so infectious, and I remember it made me feel so happy. I looked around and I thought, how powerful that is to make people laugh. It immediately became something that I was attracted to… I memorized the soundtrack, I sang the soundtrack every day in the shower and in the car on the way to school, but it wasn’t until later in my life that I realized how adjacent Glinda’s path and mine kind of are in certain ways. As I got older, I experienced loss and grief, and some dark situations that are not very different than the ones that happen in Wicked, you know? And the idea of having to maintain a hopeful public face amidst all of it. That’s a very specific and interesting thing to share with a character. I spoke to Jon about it early on. After all my auditions, I had written to him about how I felt like I had spent a lot of my life transforming darkness into light, fluffy, popular music. I don’t think I realized this at first, but a reason I was so attracted to the character of Glinda was because of her strength. It was strength that I think I needed from her; and a certain specific strength that maybe I needed to give to her. And, meeting this incredible woman to my right was just the most amazing part. When we first me, we sat on that floor.
CE: We sat on that floor and chatted for hours. Our relationship started before we filmed. We never met each other until we were cast. And we chose to sit down on my floor and hang out in my house and it was easy.
AG: And we immediately loved each other, but we also had a very real conversation about how we need to take care of each other, like, there’s nothing you can’t say to me. During this long process, we must be able to say: I need your hand; this felt this way, I want to take care of this with you; I noticed that happened, how can I take it on with you; what can I help with? We needed to be there for each other in a very real way so that…
CE: … we have the space and the safety to be able to play these scenes and go through these things that we were going through as both our characters and as ourselves, safely and openly and without any hesitation. Because that’s the ground where you can grow—when you’re in a space that feels safe. You can do anything being uninhibited.
AG: And we’re so grateful for Jon and Marc. This thing is extraordinarily huge and spectacular and beautiful, with the flying monkeys and the sets and Paul Tazewell’s costumes. It’s all larger than life, but it felt so incredibly intimate and real and honest and that’s thanks to the people who are sitting around me right now. I’m so grateful.
Can you talk about the decision to use such massive practical sets on this film? I imagine there was an easier way to do this, but I don’t know if there was a more awe-inspiring way.
MP: I’ll let Jon take that because I spent twenty years envisioning what a movie might be, wanting it to be real and authentic. He helped us navigate that from his extraordinary imagination.
JMC: When you visit Oz, the bar is high. Right now in movies, the bar is high. People want to see and experience something that sweeps you away—it’s why I fell in love with movies in the first place. And [Production Designer] Nathan Crowley is a little shit-starter as well! He was like, let’s build it [laughs].
We were looking at Shiz University and thought, there have been so many magic schools. But in the L. Frank Baum books, it says all the places are connected by waterways. Let’s build it [laughs]. We were like, yeah they’re going to hate us! But I said, it’s okay we’ll figure it out.
AG: The tulips!
JMC: The tulips. Nine. Million. Tulips. The train is real. A sixty-ton train on real tracks. We had an amazing engineering team. I mean, VFX is all over this thing too—it was a combination. VFX would say, “Build as much as you can. It really helps us.” We were all in it together, conspiring to figure out how to do it.
But the reality was, when we ask questions about something like Munchkinland, it seems very simple. Munchkinland, we all know Munchkinland! But if this is going to play through both movies, this has to be the place that we want to exist, this has to be the place that Glinda and Elphaba are willing to sacrifice their lives for. Then there are the people in Munchkinland—who are they? Why would they just leave? Then we have to build a culture. Then we have to dive further in—what’s the culture? They cultivate the colors of Oz. Maybe they harvest the honey and the sugar. They could cultivate the joy of Oz. This is the pure Oz. The Wizard has come in and said, don’t worry, don’t fear. Follow this yellow brick road. They’re innocent and they want to be optimistic. That relationship is there from the very beginning of the movie. Even though it’s barely explored in this movie, establishing the real things is very important because by building a reality that you could touch and you could scratch, then the stakes of these two women are real stakes. In this film, we drop you into a crime scene! What you think is blood is actually water. You see a blue feather and a little evidence that you’ll find out about later. And you end up at the most famous crime scene in the world—that hat! Then you burst in, and it’s not just a skip around the land. No, you’re going to see the land. This land exists, and these people live within that. To me, that was our starting place. Instead of, she’s just a witch, she’s the green girl.
When I see both of them together in Defying Gravity, talk about masterful work. One person’s ascending. One person is getting the confidence, believing in herself and escalating to the top, while one is not quite ready. And you can’t hate her for not being ready, because that’s kind of where we are, as the audience. We start with Elphaba and she grows in power in ways that we wish we could. And then when she takes off, we’re sort of Glinda. We wish we could do that. And hopefully in movie two, we start to maybe see the pathways for us. They all play together in that sense.
Can you talk about the comic timing in the film? You’re both very funny, but in very different ways.
CE: Jon just let us play. We were mischievous. Some of it is scripted; some of it is not. I think most of my comedy is in the roll of my eyes.
AG: It’s so good.
CE: But the thing is, they’re just responses. When I first saw it, there were eye rolls that I don’t remember doing. Those were things that I naturally responded to in that way, and Jon would catch them, and he would just say, go with it, react, be there… and then if I’m in a room with Glinda—with Ari—I’m just, I’m alive. I’m waiting. I’m open. I want to see what I’m going to get, because she’s a live wire, you know? You get this wonderful tennis match that we get to play, so the comedic timing is literally OUR timing.
AG: It’s still honest, too. We like surprising each other, and surprising Jonathan [Bailey]! We would always get one take where we say what’s on the page. And then we would get like twenty of them where we’re just kind of messing around. That was my favorite part—being surprised by what actually made it into the film. I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe that nonsense thing I said is in the film! Another great part was collaborating to find our physicality, like on Popular with our brilliant choreographer, Chris Scott. He had this amazingly choreographed number, and it was perfect, literally perfect. And then he came in and he showed it to me, and I said, I love it. Now we have to “Galindify” it. And we found certain little beats together, like with “you’ll be good at sports.” He was going to train me to have the ball spin on my finger, but I was like, oh no, please can we have it fall off and I still think it’s there? I think it’s there, but it’s not there. We had such an incredibly collaborative, open, and playful group of creatives. It was really fun.